This is the accidentally intentional podcast. I'm your host, Joe. I hate small talk, and I'm ready to have meaningful conversations that build us. Let's go. Let me hit you with some stats. Before we start today's episode. Cornell University did a study on 72 CEOs with a broad range of revenue from $5 million to $50 billion. And they studied these 72 CEOs. And they found that there was one common theme that was the key predictor of success. Guess what it was self awareness. Another study done found that 95% of people believe that we are self aware. But according to their findings, only 10 to 15% of people are actually self aware, that is a huge gap. Because it's a seemingly hidden issue. I wanted to shed some light on it, and bring in an expert so that we can all learn together how to become more self aware. So for today's episode, I brought in one of my good friends, Shannon golden. Shannon is a Licensed Mental Health Plus drug and alcohol therapist, and she talks about this subject all day long with her clients. So really, I couldn't think of a better person to jump on the pod and discuss this topic with our goal of this Convo is to really serve as an introductory springboard for your journey to learn more about yourself and learn how to become self aware. So let's hit it, Shannon. So you're here in the accidentally intentional studio headquarters? How does it feel? I am pumped, and I'm so excited. Well, it is just a normal day in my apartment. So okay, well, you made it. I know a lot cooler. I know I really hyped it up. Okay, that's all good, though. Movie magic right there. You never know what's gonna happen. We actually have no idea what's going to happen, because I'm not sure where this conversation is going to take us because here's the thing, Shannon, I have noticed in the past year, that self awareness is becoming an issue across the board, I think, because we've all gotten a little weird 2020 has done something to us. And I just feel like there are so many layers of all of us not really understanding, one who we are to how we're received. And three, when to know when, when to change that about ourselves. So we're going to kind of talk about that today. Let's go. Let's freakin go. Okay, so let's first off talk about your experience as a therapist, and how self awareness is something that you have to help people find for themselves all the time. I think first, it's so important that I continue to stay as aware as possible with myself. And that's from my thoughts to my emotions to my behaviors, how I feel like I'm being perceived to others, how people are perceiving me, to my body language, my facial expressions. And that's the only way if I have that awareness that I can help other people access their own for sure. Self awareness. Yeah. Do you do you think? I mean, is it just me saying this? Or do you think that there are a lot of people that struggle with actually being self aware? Yeah, take, for example, small example. But we were just talking about this before we started recording that there are certain sentences people say where you automatically know it's a no for me, like when people are like, Oh, I'm super trustworthy. You're like, if you say it, I don't know that you are you. Why do you have to prove that? Yeah. Or when this has been like the hot thing of the past two years on? Instagram is talking about toxic people. But and I think I talked about this in an episode with someone else, but it's basically like, if you're talking about toxic people, isn't that making you toxic to because you're calling other people? You know, and I'm just like, people that aren't toxic aren't wasting time talking about other people being toxic anymore. And it's just like, it's just this weird pattern I've seen and I'm just like, I don't know. I don't know about it. Let's let's start with the bare bones. Okay, how can someone learn to become more self aware? A lot of beautiful question. Yeah. I think that is so important. And really great that you even care to ask that just gonna say that. I believe we have to desire that. First of all, you have to want to on your own, increase your awareness. And I think it starts with allowing yourself space and time to be with just you which Okay, people listening right now might be like, oh my goodness, like, count me out. I don't want to learn self awareness because being by myself feels scary. I don't like sitting with myself because that's when I get lost in my thoughts, maybe, you know, racing thoughts, ruminating thoughts, obsessive thoughts start to come in negative thoughts. And I try to avoid that and suppress those things as much as possible. But I feel like honestly, you have to allow that time to just be and then go inward is what I call it with my clients or you know, just with you, my friends, and going inward means Okay, in this moment in this space, like what are the thoughts actually going on? You know, what reels? Do I continue to play? In my mind? What kind of memory not Instagram real slick. The real reals? Yeah, definitely no histogram. Okay, yes. Got it. Because that's distraction. I can just imagine someone listening to this right now. And being like, no, absolutely not. Because of the fact that it's just like, why are we so afraid of our own thoughts? Let me tackle that. As soon as I tap Janna shackling. The last see I cut her off this relationship right here. See, I was very aware of it. And I'm really good at redirecting. So I got to grow. So going inward, like I said, is being aware of okay, what kind of thought patterns have been going on? So am I thinking things that bring me life that are, you know, healthy for me, whatever that looks like? Or are these destructive kind of thoughts that are irrational, and really keeping me stuck in a perspective or lens that's just very distorted and going to take me to a healthy places, also, being aware of what I'm feeling. And that comes from, you know, going inside and getting curious about the bodily sensations that are going on, you know, how's my heart feel? How's my tummy feel? In this moment? You know, checking in anxiety, depression levels, you know, checking in totally Mind, Body Soul, what I'm feeling and thinking in this moment, and then maybe, how am I projecting that on to other people? How is this affecting my mood? How are these thoughts and feelings affecting my actions, which is a huge one, right? How am I treating people right now? And how am I treating myself? Yeah. So I think that's very broadly, a couple of the first steps. It's like, okay, hey, I want this. It's the whole I'm, I'm admitting maybe I need to increase my awareness. And I have that desire. So okay, great. Check one. Now, how can we open up a couple minutes or moments in your everyday life where there's no distractions? There's no people around, and you can gain a better relationship with yourself by going inward? No, those are, those are really good. And I just imagine people, people listening to that. I'm just trying to play devil's advocate this whole conference. This is what we do. Every time we talk. Yeah. So what if people are like, I don't have time, but I'm not gonna think about like, Huh, no, that's all right. Well, we'll just fly feeling my Yeah, yeah. What do you say to that? Then? How's it helping you not doing? Oh, come on? Yeah. I mean, I think we need to get real. And I understand guys, it's hard for me to sometimes pick up the mirror and look at myself and be like, Yo, Shannon, come on. Yeah, right. People are afraid of doing this because it doesn't feel good. So let's just talk about that. It doesn't feel good. Okay. I hear you. I understand. experiencing some of these emotions are unpleasant. But let's just keep it at that period. They are unpleasant, they just don't feel good. But what do we know about feelings is, you know, what I asked my friends or what I asked my clients, what do we know to be true about feelings? While they're temporary? They chemically, biologically scientific, scientifically, psychologically, cannot last forever in our bodies. That is so great to know. Because you will never always feel this way. So let's say someone's just like, Okay, I'm going to spend time. I'm gonna set the timer and I'm gonna start by spending five minutes with myself. And my thoughts. Yeah. And it's just like, eating them alive. So here's my next question. How do you filter what is true? versus what is self sabotage? In your mind? So basic, like like, see, that sees Oh, now that you're by yourself, this is why you're such an idiot that you said what you said today because you're so dumb. Like, how do you filter whether that's like a true statement or something where you're just like, yeah, I need to work on changing this kind of thing. Cool. Such a good question. But such a big question. Yeah, sure, very loaded. Just gonna add this in there real quick go into therapy. In short, having a guide, like a therapist, be there to hear your thoughts. And as you build your relationship over time, they're there. Literally, their job is to point out the patterns and be like, Hey, okay, what's going on here? Is this helping you? Springing life or death? Basically, in your, in your life? Though, a good question to ask yourself is, you know, what are the facts and evidence that say that you are an idiot? What are the facts and evidence that say that you're not worthy of good things? What are the facts and evidence that no one will love you? What are the facts and evidence of x y&z? So this is getting into a little bit of CBT cognitive behavioral therapy, one of the models I work from specifically, but it's all about literally dissecting your thought patterns, checking for the evidence, putting your thoughts on trial, you know, hearing what the jury says, AKA your friends, your community, your people. So this is where it's important to actually be discussing this with other people be open, because my goodness, can I just say this out loud? Like, we all have weird thoughts. Okay. And our thoughts come from three places in our mind. We all know this unconscious, subconscious and conscious. I tell my clients all the time, you know, they'll disclose these thoughts, these nasty, horrible thoughts, quote, and I'm like, okay, and they're like, I'm like, I'm such a freak for thinking that Shannon, like, what the heck's wrong with me? I'm like, do you know some of my thoughts? Because I, this is what we do know, as a fact, we have no control over what thoughts are produced. In our brain. We do have control, and I believe we do have a responsibility, what to do with those thoughts and how to manage them. Right. Yeah. So that's a good thing. You know, you can put your thoughts on trial, kind of check where the facts and facts and evidence are. Talk to your people about it. Go get some counsel, healthy counsel. Yeah. And check out these thoughts, then guess what, we can better manage them. They don't roll you for life. They don't have to. Now that's so good. And it reminds me, you know, my leadership coach a couple years ago, said that I should start asking people close to me, like, how do you receive me? And I was just like, oh, and I was like, so scared of doing that. I was like, No, I don't. But it goes back to the thing of like, yeah, it's scary, because they can be honest with you. But at the end of the day, I mean, and I think that that's why a lot of people are scared of counseling. And therapy, too, is because they're like, No, I have to face it. Yeah, you have to face it. Yeah. And then you become a better human being because you face it and have healed from it. Don't get me started. Are you getting me started? Yeah, get both of us started. No. So So basically, I don't think I've really like talked about this in the podcast yet. But I spent two full years in counseling and therapy doing like deep work in myself. And I did not realize who I was, until I went through therapy, and someone actually just coming alongside with me, and they're just like, whoa, like, this is how, you know, and I feel like I have done the deep work of trying to become more self aware and all of my tendencies. And all of you know, when, when I'm starting to turn one direction, it's like, oh, this is not healthy. And, and it's really crazy, because I feel like a different person, honestly, as a result of it and, and I just want to, like, encourage anyone who is scared of it, do it afraid. You're, you're not just, you're not doing it for other people around you. You're doing it for yourself. And that's one of the best gifts you can give to yourself is the ability to be seen by someone else. And like, and I think where a lot of people get get tripped up is because they approach a counseling session as the goal is, oh, I want to be healed. Well, first off, I mean, because I'm a believer, I think that God is the person who can heal someone's heart. Yes, he can bring people alongside of that. But my goal is I want to understand myself and when you come in with that mindset, you come ready to learn and like with an open heart and so I think that's what like helped me and that's always what I challenged people who are just like oh, I want to do this. I'm just like, do it but like this is the mindset you need to have. So because make trying to get someone else to heal you if you are going to be willing to come alongside Then you're gonna have some challenge, but if you want to learn, then the healing will be a byproduct of it along the way. Okay, and that's a wrap. Thank you very much. But yeah, so big proponent of it. And, and that's why I love our conversations all the time shit because this is like a normal conversation whereas we're going 10 layers deep, we're talking about the brain or you know, it's instant. We're just like, Yeah, let's just talk about the real stuff. Yes, we both don't do the surface level. Okay. And that's one of those biggest things. That's why this podcast exists. Yeah, no small talk. Please don't tell me about the weather. My goodness. I should start making T shirts that say anti small talk. Okay, I'll buy one. We'll just be like, Wow, they are so rude. Just because I need to know all of you. I like the layers. We like onions. That's right. Like that. Episode that episode. Shrek. Yeah. Haven't seen the TV show? Let's shut up. Wow. I talked about my experience and how my leadership coach was like, Yeah, you should just ask people, How do you receive me? Take me through that from from your understanding or how you would do that in your life. Because people are afraid that they're going to hear the truth, when I actually find that whenever I've asked people they are seeing the best version of me, which I think is really interesting. Because you're not going to ask someone, typically, who doesn't know your heart. And if it your friend group doesn't know your heart than I would say that's on you. I mean, you have the opportunity to share as much as you want with another human being. Yeah, so if you're saying if you receive me, and they're saying all these like surface level things, then go 10 layers deeper, be the the first person to get vulnerable. I'm going on a tangent, but basically, what are some other action items, ways that people can start learning how to become self aware, or, like say therapy isn't an option right now for them, but they do have friends in their life and community that can show them the mirror that is themselves and be like, This is what we see. And how to start those conversations. And not it not be weird, I think to talk about more practical steps on your own. If it's just if you're not ready in any means or cannot afford therapy, whatever that may be, you know, like I said that time by yourself is crucial. To go into that a little bit further. There is so much power in journaling and writing things down, don't you? Of course, I'm gonna bring that up. I am that therapist and that friend, I'm that person who personally journals and encourages people to write things down there. There's so much going on in our mind all the time. compartmentalizing is a whole skill in itself that I practice daily, specially when I'm taking off my professional hat and putting my personal hat back on to just be Shannon, and not have to walk around, you know, trying to see all the things with the lens of therapists that I have to put up. So anyways, being able to take all of this going on and sort it out on paper helps our minds make sense of things a lot quicker and easier. Because we can physically see it, we have it down in an order. And then it really helps us to just be able to organize and dig into these thoughts further or bring them up later in conversations with other people. And then we can kind of do self reflection self assessment on our own pros and cons list included. And just figure out are these ways of thinking really helping me or if it's this, you know, nagging dreading feeling that continues to come up or this fear or this anxiety, embarrassment, jealousy that I'm experiencing often. Okay, how can i lay that out on paper and see where this could be stemming from where this could be coming from? So if you get to see in front of you, okay, here's these kinds of thought patterns reoccurring, that keep popping up. And I continue to feel this vulnerable emotion that's very unpleasant. You know, what can I maybe change my life or what is missing? What am I lacking? Where's the holes? Where's the voids? How can I bring this up to my people and check in with them? And maybe they can show me because they're not me. They're outside of me. Maybe they can pick up like, well, Shannon, you know, like, you've been isolating a little more than often or Shannon hiking is your favorite thing in the world. When's the last time you took a hike? Yeah, or okay, how often are we in the word Come on, I mean, on every level physically, spiritually, mentally, emotionally, we have to check in to all those facets of our lives, in the people that we let into those vulnerable places, they can keep us accountable in ways. So their third party, third party perspective really helps increase our awareness of what's going on inside of us. But it all starts with inviting those people into that space. Yeah, yeah. And that's your choice. And that's cool. Sure. That is your choice for sure. And choose wisely. Yeah. Because you are susceptible to getting burned, hurt. Rejected, like any other human. Yeah. So but you're also susceptible to healing, growing relationships? Yeah. Increasing your vulnerability in a pleasant way? Absolutely. It's both sides, and you should take chances to let people in. I am just encouraging people to be mindful of the right people. And all that means is, look at someone's patterns of behaviors and how they treat other people. You mentioned the word compartmentalize, which I have heard used negatively before, like, Oh, why are you compartmentalizing? Like, can you just think so? Can you explain what compartmentalizing is, when is when is it healthy? To use? I feel like this might be too vague or too specific of a question. But let's just start with compart mentalizing. Explain it. So I think this can look different for everyone and be used for different things. And could be used in a negative way as well. Anyways, so use compartmentalization for a positive, like I was saying with me, in my job, I would be a hot mess. And not very useful, not very present focused with the people in my personal life. And with my relationships, if I just kept my therapists head on the rest of the day, like I'm thinking about right now. And it's actually see I'm being very aware, it's provoking a lot of emotions, I would just be a jittery, anxious mess, and I wouldn't be present focus. Yeah. So being able to, in your mind, you know, mentally sorting through these different thoughts, and being able to put them in different boxes, and put the lid on it and put it away for the night or that evening or the morning. And it's kind of like physically organizing or sorting something and putting them in boxes, and packing them away. So if you can see yourself, putting away your job into that box, where you can tap into that tomorrow and pull out what you need to and then seeing yourself go into that personal box where you can engage in those relationships and have those conversations or get those tasks done. I think that could be helpful. And just to clarify, you're not saying be two different people. In case someone heard that. It's just like, No, you're the same person. But you you have a different lens. It's just like different prescription level of lenses. Yeah, you know, you the same exact person. Yes. Just when you're prioritizing things. You have to be able to put things away. Yes. So you can focus on one thing at a time. Like I'm focused on conversations right now. Yes. I'm not like fun. Let's go crazy and dance. So that'll be afterwards when we make our Instagram real. Yeah. Oh, for sure. Oh, yeah. And I think it's just about compartmentalizing is how can you stay as present in the moment as possible? I think that's really important. Yeah. Because like this morning, I was telling you, I was finishing up my therapy notes from the week. So Saturday morning, I was still tapped into clinical Shannon Yeah. With all the jargon I have to use and thinking about my class. I'm gonna call you clinical Shannon through this episode. Sorry, keep going. So yeah, so it's being clinical Shannon, and I wasn't even thinking about you and I hanging out today in the conversations that we were having no route. No, I'm just kidding. See, it's not rude. It's compartmentalized. Exactly. And healthy way to keep you on track with where you are. Yes, it's this whole like Be Where Your Feet are kind of thing you're saying it sounds like in the whole separating like you and Quaid? Were talking about work life balance. Oh, look at you drop in the previous episode. That's why we should watch them all so we can bring them all together. That'd be cool. Okay, come on. Like I will not other than talking about self awareness right now. This is just me. This is normal. Shannon, talking about things I'm extremely passionate about with one of my closest friends. But I will will not put on my therapist hat till eight o'clock on Monday morning. I bet everything on that because I don't want to write and that's not where I need to be right now. So I'm not thinking about my clients and their traumas and their triggers right now. I don't need to that's in their box. There you go. So I love that on this whole concept of like being self aware. When I went to therapy, I learned that I was codependent for the first time ever, and codependent means like, Oh, so you're like a stage 1000 clinger? No, not really codependent means that and you can give more beauty to this definition. But codependent basically means that you want to always make sure that people around you are taken care of so much so that it can enter into the zone of being manipulative and trying to control their life, which I was like, Oh, gross, I don't want that to be part of me. So that's something I've like actively been working to cleanse from my system and kind of rewire that pattern altogether. For myself. Is that a good definition? I think you were that really well, plus, the fact that there's, you know, there's attachment issues there. Yes, yes. Which, which is something that whenever I build relationships, I'm like, we're, we're in it now. It's, that's why I'm like anti small talk. But so now I've been learning to like, maintain a healthy balance of that, where it's not like, Hi, oh, my God. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi, I'm here all day long. You know, and just be crazy. Yes. You wouldn't be being crazy. Okay, fair. There's just Can I use my favorite word, a lack of boundaries? Yeah. Where there needs to be boundaries and filled. There's a lot of enabling that is occurring on both sides, getting away with different things or encouraging you to do different things that would not be of good health, we could say. The limits restrictions, boundaries are just very blurred. Yeah. And those attachment issues get very messy. And there's bonds that are being created. And when there's friction, or other people involved in the relationship dynamics get twisted expectations are let down. I mean, I can, that's the thing. Yeah. Could go. Yeah. So So codependency is one thing. And so I kind of want to go through like a few like, hot button like, not labels, but things that are just like, Oh, if you do this, maybe you could be this. So this might be something for you to look into. So I think codependency was one for me once I learned that because it's not like codependency itself is not healthy. But the base, if you pull it out in a healthy manner, then you're being a healthy person, you just realize when you're tipping over the edge and getting to be too much. That's that's what I found for myself. Everything is on a spectrum. Yes. So for instance, you and I have talked about the word manipulation before. And Shannon told me, Oh, that's healthy manipulation. I said, What, hey, I'm pretty sure healthy and manipulation don't go in the same sentence together, I'll give an example of healthy manipulation versus an manipulation. So just the preface that, yeah, I'm gonna use a therapist card. I feel like I feel like I have the authority, maybe more than just someone else to implement healthy manipulation. And all that that means is it is an attempt to encourage someone or plant seeds in someone's soil, yes, to help them do something that would be way beneficial for their lives to help them actually have to pick up that mirror and be like, Oh, wow, that's kind of jacked up. That's kind of messed up. Right? That's messy. Maybe I should do something about it without me being passive aggressive towards them demeaning towards them throwing it in their face. Yes. So they can feel shameful and feel condemned in that moment. Yeah, to change so and so healthy manipulation is almost more of like an encouragement kind of thing. It's like, oh, I want you to see this kind of perspective. Have you ever thought of it as opposed to normal manipulation as most of us know it to be like, Whoa, chill out, stop trying to control me, you know, kind of thing like that. Is that right? Yeah, like my voice. So yeah. Wow. I mean, manipulation. There's so many actually layers to it. It's way dynamic. We need a whole podcast for that. Though. This is your attempt, you have very harmful malicious intentions. I do not Are you just saying, Brian, this would be called deflection with humor? Whoa. defense mechanisms? No, I was asking, Do I Do you want to call me out right now in front of all these people? Just it? That's one of your defense mechanisms? No, I'm saying do I am I manipulative? So I'm trying to manipulate me into answering that right. Okay, if you didn't see, because you listen to the audio on the I just raised some eyebrows with the camera. So now you're back on track. I should probably come watch this because it's pretty entertaining. Check out the YouTube channel. Yes. So I'm sure a lot of people at this point understand the term victimization another big word. Yeah. Yeah. It's a hated word right now. Well, it's a hot talk about a hot word. Yeah. Um, the whole don't play the victim. Don't be the victim. Okay, that's actually really important though. Because when we want to talk about manipulation, people 10 Not always tend to come from a stance of being a victim. And they're making an attempt of communicating to someone in a very, we'll say a sneaky, passive, aggressive, sarcastic way to get their needs met in some way and get another person to do what they need for them. Let's, let's, let's play this right now. Let's make it real. Give me an example. Like you're saying to me, do you want me to role play? Yeah, let's do it. Has a patient. Just ask me? How's it? How's it going? Yeah. How's how's your Saturday? I mean, it's fine. Oh, well, it doesn't sound fine. Well, it's clearly fine. Because, you know, I just been at home all day by myself while everybody else went out and, you know, hang out together. So Oh, you're upset because I didn't invite you to hang out? No, I'm not upset at all. It's just like, people usually tend to think about all their friends before going and making plans. So wow, this is where you're doing great at this roleplay. I mean, I wouldn't laugh in under normal circumstances. But because you put on your actor hat you compartmentalised and put your actor hat on, it was very good. I roleplay, often with my clients, because that same thing that you kind of did there something clicks? Yeah. And they're like, Oh, I've done that. Yeah, that we've all done. Yeah, we've all done that. Because we're extremely imperfect. That was an example of that passive aggressive, kind of, victimizing stance that people take in this is something to be aware of, yes. When it comes to men manipulate, how should it be said instead, where you want to get the point across like, Hey, I was hurt that I wasn't invited less? Or should you? Should you bring that up? Should that ever be said, like in this specific instance, I hope this is an exact scenario that someone's face, and now we're giving them their script? Yeah, I hope my clients are listening. Yes, I mean, definitely, you should communicate these feelings. Because if if it's taking you to a place like that, where your communication style is going to change, and you're going to hinder your relationships by coming off like that, then absolutely, you're you're hurt inside, you were triggered, you were triggered by something right? You know, rejection, abandonment, loneliness, something deep down came up, because you were not personally invited. Whether that was the intention or not, whether people were aware of it or not, that hit something deeper. So that is your responsibility. That's our responsibility to communicate to the other person. When this happens, I feel this way. I feel unwanted. Not seen not heard. I feel like you guys don't want to be around me. I feel like whatever. When I'm not invited to the group hang out. Now, I could see someone saying that and just be like, well, I thought I shouldn't be manipulative. And so now I'm trying to control what someone does in the future. What's your response to that? You're saying if someone perceive that as being manipulative, or someone who's like, I don't want to say that because I don't want to be manipulative, then I would say, we need to understand what being manipulative actually looks like versus healthy communication of your your needs, and your feelings and your wants. Yeah, because nothing is unhealthy about using those I feel statements and coming to someone and being like, I feel this. When this happens, yeah. That's actually going to improve your relationship with that person, for sure. And because we're talking about self awareness, let's flip the other side of that coin. You're the person who's receiving that you just received an I feel statement, because I feel like I'm dead. Often, I realized previously, I would be the person who would have a very like Cold Response like, oh, well, why do you feel like that you need to chill out, like, then trying to control how someone reacts to that, you know, and it's just like layers of this, like when people say no offense, but you are literally telling someone don't take offense by what I'm about to say, because it's going to hurt. But I'm telling you right now, don't feel it. What? You know, on the topic of being self aware, it needs to be both sides. How are people receiving my response? So how should a person receive an I feel statement from somebody else? Yeah, definitely not. With offense. If someone's actually taking the time to articulate a healthy statement like that, and come to you about what they are experiencing versus what you did, because that's totally different. I feel statements are literally built to make it about you. Yeah. Like that needs to soak into people. They're not pointing a finger. It's not about shame on you. Why didn't use though, invite me? Or do this for me? You make me feel oh, no one can make you feel Come on. Emotions. i The world needs to hear this Shannon golden needs to hear this zone needs to hear this. No one can make you feel anything. Yes. That is your own perception reaction of how you are taking in a situation conversation. That was it right there. I mean, seriously, though. So to answer that, your response should be as as open minded as possible as the other person who was coming to you to tell you how you feel. So let's just play that out. You'll be it. You'll be that person. Just the same scenario. We just talked about what you should have said to me instead, okay, we'll flip it. Yeah. So honestly, I just, I feel left out in it actually just makes me feel sad. And it reinforces feelings of loneliness right now. I really hate feeling that way. And I know that's not your intentions, or anyone's intentions, if I wouldn't be invited to something. But I just wanted to let you know, I feel feel sad when I'm not invited always to these group Hangouts, because you know how much I want to spend time with you. So here's what I'd say. Shannon, I'm really sorry. And you're right. It wasn't my intention. But I also didn't make the intention for you not to feel that way at the same time. So regardless of what my intentions were, that's what you felt. And so I apologize for that. And I don't want to do it again. So what can I do? Better? Moving forward? To make sure that you feel included? Yes. Two things go on. I will say, you do really well with this. Overall, I feel I'm, I'm getting graded live. You are, I have I can think of specific moments in my mind where I've come to you about certain things, or we were in certain kinds of seasons and situations were popping up. And we've had this conversation before we've had these conversations before. And I can we're probably sitting right here. And you address it in that in that way. And I think to even go into your response and even make it a little bit more stronger. Let's go is like wow, Shannon like, Okay, I hear you like, I would feel that way too. That would be really frustrating for me as well. Here. Did I apologize? Because I meant to apologize. You did twice. Okay, good. I'm very aware of how many times you've posted because some people just be looking for that apology. Continue. Yes. You said I I'm sorry. First. And I would say validating someone's emotions. That's this whole active listening reflectively listening to someone. That's how you take a conversation even further, like, Oh, my goodness, I would, I would feel upset and I would feel frustrated too. If I was left out or felt like I was left out of situation. You know, I'm sorry. Thank you so much. Thank them. Thank you so much for coming to me and letting me know that actually shows that you care about our relationship. And that is it and that's that's the lens that a lot of people miss, because they think this is an attack and they're just using an I feel statement to blanket it. No, they're coming to you because they actually want your relationship to improve. That's the or that's how I'm choosing to see it. I think that's how I see it too. And I think I've struggled with this with relationships on the other side. I want my people to come to me. Yeah, I like you. I know you will always do that with Mi and I have a couple of my closest friends that are doing it more and more because I'm giving them permission to which we know that's that's a whole thing. Yes, yes. You're allowed to do that. You're allowed to have those kinds of conversations, just like the whole. If I'm in distress, and something's happening, and I come to xo. Okay, so I need you to just listen to me. Yeah. Versus, okay, I'm dealing with this problem. And please help me problem solve it. Two different stances that someone can take when it comes to listening. Yes. If you're just there to listen and validate feelings and thoughts, great. Yep. Or if you're there, because I need you and we need to problem solve something. Yeah. Okay. A different lens that you're ready to use? Yes. It's important to communicate what you're looking forward to. Yeah. Because we can't have expectations. And keep them locked in our mind and not share them with other people. Because that's when we get disappointed. That's when relationships get shaky. That's when resentment starts to build. Oh, my goodness, it's a it's a whole thing. Yeah, it's a whole thing. And I have found that 100% of the time unmet expectations come from nobody realizing you had those expectations of them. So, exactly. And then we have to, there's this mirror that keeps popping up. Right, we have to take the mirror and be like, oh, yeah, that was on me. I literally didn't communicate that I expected X, Y and Z. Yeah. So you cannot be mad at someone. Yeah. Just learn from it. Do a little bit better. Yes. Okay. No, that's really good. To summarize that whole reaction if someone approaches you with an I feel statement, one, validate their feelings, put yourself in their shoes. Yeah, two, yep. That's empathy is huge. And if you don't have empathy, I feel like empathy is the number one thing we can all work together to gain this year. Yes. And then number two, you said thank them for, for saying it. And being vulnerable. Do whatever do salutely. And I think I was wrapping it up saying yes, like with my people in you, you know, my close relationships, when you actually come to me and address those things, not from a scary aggressive place from just an assertive, kind, warm stance. That shows me that you care about me, that shows you that shows me that you love me. Yeah. And I need that. Just like any other human being, please don't be fluffy with me. Yeah, I even give my clients permission to give me you know, good feedback. That's always just gonna do Yeah, when it when it comes to therapy, and I will remind everyone and right now, right, everyone, I'm not God, in just because you're a therapist, or a professional in this field. We don't know everything, and we don't always get it right. And I can continue to humble myself in that whole area. Yeah. Always keep your mind open for feedback. And people should be addressing you and helping you be better. Yeah. No, that's great. And so so we just talked about that scenario of being on the receiving end. And so, to kind of piece together self awareness elements of a good springboard to start, though, I mean, like, I'm not gonna twist your arm. I'm just gonna say, counseling and therapy has changed my life. Literally. Me too. Yeah. Well, me to get to where you are today. Being on the other side of sides. Yeah, both sides. How to be self aware, one, spend time with yourself actually focusing on your thoughts, and trying to trace the patterns back to why am I feeling this way? What's the actual root of it? I mean, there's something I learned to do with anxiety too. Like in the Bible, it literally talks about David's saying, Why are you anxious? Oh, my soul. David is literally talking to his soul being like Soul. Come on. Now. Where's this coming from? Where? Why are you feeling anxious? Yeah. And that's an important thing to do. And then, after that, asking people close to you, how do you receive me? Or like, what? What do you see when you see me? And say, be honest, don't sugarcoat it, right? And then third, where can I improve? What are what are weakspots? Do you think for me? Exactly. Yeah. Very simple and practical. Once you get started, of course, like anything you need repetitive practice. Right here right now. Spontaneous exercise that we're going to do. You included. Let's go flee. y'all out there are willing to try this. Oh, where are you from the south. Girl. Bah. I'm ready. I have my notebook out. I don't think you need your notebook. So This would be considered grounding mindfulness activity. What is this language is that what's grounding mindfulness activity? use regular language, grounding ourselves in the present moment, which is what mindfulness is all about real quick activity. Yep, we're gonna be aware of our five senses for a couple moments. Okay? So, right now in the moment, observe and notice five things that you can see. And just observe them in your mind, describe them in your mind, maybe colors, textures, stay fully in the present. Then we want to be aware of for things that we can feel right now. Being mindful of those kinds of sensations, what's coming up, just simply observing for things you can feel. And then going into I'm gonna fall asleep. This is like, I'm relaxed. No, you're welcome meditation by Shannon. Three things that you can hear. Picking up on the different sounds, okay, good. You talk to that adds to one. Two things that you could smell I got nothing might be a little bit hard. I didn't even light a candle. We should be smelling a candle right now. Sorry, I failed you. And then one thing, tasting, which is a little bit hard. If you don't have a drink, or gum or a mint. So 54321 using the five sentence, five, five sentence senses. That is a simple way to be aware. And what does that do of what's going on, that's helping increasing your self awareness of what's going on, inside and outside of you. Okay, in the present moment, and the present moment is the only place that we find calm and peace. So we can associate that with our walk with Christ to and our prayer life, our relationship with God, we have to ground ourselves, be aware of what's going on inside of us, around us to best access our souls and have that relationship and communication with him. That's awesome. And that's also something that can be used. When people are feeling like anxious, right? Yes. panicky, like depressed, like all, all all all mental health symptoms or issues. We first before me, we're gonna You're probably right. Oh, gosh, all on the spectrum. Yeah, but if you're too pumped or excited, like we have to, we have to get a little bit out of our emotional mind. Yeah, and find our wise mind and get to a grounding, calming place before we can do rote work. Ya know, being present is something I struggle with. I mean, I'm like futurist is one of my strengths on the What's it called? Okay, that was super helpful to keep us being present the 54321 using the five senses, and can just say that's literally one out of so many, we even call it a coping skill that you have access to in the moment to just get some space before you start to self reflect, and start to become more self aware in that moment. So that's why once again, going to therapy, or even, you know, investing in a self help book or anxiety manship management book, depression management book, whatever it may be, you're gonna get so many of those tools right there named three books that you would recommend and I'll put them in the links below, in the in the show notes. Okay, well, I'll think about some best one. Okay. And I'll put them in the top three from Shani, right on the spot. Yeah. Okay. So is there anything we didn't talk about pertaining to this that you think should we said? Well, I feel like this is just the very beginning are talking about this whole broad concept? Yeah. Though, I would just encourage people to challenge themselves more each day to find things that they can be more aware of that maybe they wouldn't have seen before. And start to notice and look inward more, and try to get to that present moment. If you enjoy walking. Here's my last tidbit. mindful walking, self awareness, walking, whatever you want to call it, go on a walk in with those five senses, you know, get in tune what can you hear while you're walking? You know, what are the smells? What's the wind? Feel like blowing through your hair on your skin. What's it feel like to feel your feet on the different pavement and the roads. And those simple acts of mindfulness, which is all just staying in the present moment, will help you be even more aware of yourself and how you're feeling and what you're thinking in those moments. So play around with it, just get curious and take time to take care of yourself and check in. That's awesome. It reminds me I recently went on a 45 minute bike ride with no music, which was the first time I'd ever done that. I usually am listening to a podcast or music because I'm a binge eater when it comes to podcast. And I was like, floored, I was like, Oh, my gosh, my brain what what? I have not been giving you attention. You've been deprived of thinking just about being where we are. That is great. Yeah, it was very, very, it was very hard for me. I was tempted probably over 20 times to turn music on, but one drowning out. Because I didn't want to be with my my thoughts. Because why? I don't know. I'm still trying to figure it out. Because it wasn't like I was afraid of them. Now see, now we're gonna have another hour of a conversation. Well, that I take this off the air. Yes, we'll take it off the air. Yeah, get that journal out, girl. That is true. You know what I'm going to say right now. I'm going to get into journaling. I don't know the frequency yet. I'll start with trying to do it three times a week. journaling. How's that sound? And now I have every podcaster listener podcast listener holding me accountable. I think that's very realistic and a really good place to start. And guess what? Journaling doesn't have to have any fancy structure. It just is what it is. And there's no rules getting it out. Yeah. If you want to join me in this challenge, let me know. Because I do it too. There you go. So, Shannon, Shani, as we call you? Annie. Where can people find you? Tell us tell us all the things not at my house. Don't come we're not coming to your house. Okay. We are coming to somebody's earbuds near them though. Yes, we are. Social media. I guess you're asking yes. Well, I do have a separate account, which you could call it the professional account whatever you want to say. But at take care Shani take care Shani take care Shani. Yes, that's the one that's nice and public. And I create mental health posts encouragement posts, talking about all the things I do as a drug and alcohol mental health therapists perfect. And yeah, okay. And so if someone just like, honestly, I liked this conversation, and it's compelled me I kind of want to start. Maybe I want to start counseling, maybe you want to start therapy? We're gonna go. Another great question. You can reach out on take care Shani, by the way. Talk to so many different people around the world actually about mental health and addiction on they're really cool. One of the best routes to shop for therapists, like I like to say is going on psychology today. It's a really great database of clinicians, professionals, therapists in the field, where you can type in your location, zip code. There's tons of filters, where you can look at specific types of therapy that you would like to get can check out all those different options in their insurance. You can even plug in your insurance or if you're looking for self pay cash pay, it allows you to filter by anything I need. You want family therapy, or individual anxiety. Yeah, yeah. xiety depression. What? Why are you coming to therapy? So Psychology Today? Which I'm sure is I will plug in that link? Yeah. A really great place to start. Okay, great. Yeah, that'll be in the show notes, too. One final thing, I want you to dispel the myth that you have to stick with the first counselor, you're fine, just give 30 seconds of what you actually can do. Instead, do not feel bad or guilty. If you don't like the first or second or third therapists that you see. Everyone's not going to be the perfect match. And that is okay. It's just like when we go on coffee dates, and you're trying to find those really good, solid, genuine relationships. So every one will not be a good match. Keep trying, don't give up because every therapist is not made the same. Oh, come on. And it's okay. It's okay to be self aware in that arena and realize maybe they're not your cup of tea, but you're committed to finding that person who challenges you. And if you're a therapist listening as well, not every client is the best match for us as well. And we don't have to take it to heart either, because I have been often grateful that clients would admit like okay, well me VA, maybe a different approach or this isn't working right. I feel like I've thought, okay, yep. Great. Thank you so much for telling me right. Yeah, perfect. Good luck. Okay, we gotta go. Okay, we're out. Bye. Bye. Whoo. I hope you got a lot from that combo because I sure know that I did. As a reminder in the show notes for this episode, I have links to books that Shannon and I have recommended on the topic of self awareness, as well as the Psychology Today link. If you want to begin your therapy and counseling journey, as well as Shannon's public Instagram, let's get some takeaways. When someone approaches you with an I feel statement, here are some best practices when it comes to your response. One, validate their emotions to thank them for sharing it three, apologize, period. Don't say I'm sorry, you feel that way. Because that's not really an apology. But just instead say I'm sorry. Simple. I love when Shannon said the present moment is the only place where we can actually feel calm and peace when we fixate on the past or focus on the future. That's where the anxiety can start to bubble up. Three, no one can make you feel anything and for give people permission to openly communicate with you. I know that was a lot there. So thank you guys so much for joining in on this important conversation. Now it's time for us to get back out there and be accidentally intentional. Was there someone that came to mind as you were listening to this episode? Because if so, please share it with them. We're so passionate about this message, and we want to give value to the people that would benefit from it. We drop a new episode every other Thursday, so be sure to subscribe to get the latest conversations. Oh, and one more thing. If you enjoy this episode and this podcast, I would be so honored. If you would leave a review. It helps us to better connect with the intended audience of this podcast by doing so. And I truly am so grateful for any amount of time that you choose to spend with me because trust me, I know how many options are out there and I do not take it for granted. Hey, I may not know your name yet, but let's change that connect with me on Instagram at XO Asher, or on Twitter at combos with xo. But hey, even if I don't know your name yet, what I do know for certain is that you're amazing. I love you. You have something that the world needs and you are always more than enough. So hey, we'll see you next time on The accidentally intentional podcast.